Showing posts with label Yahoogroups. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Yahoogroups. Show all posts

Monday, January 15, 2024

Archives of the "AfricanLanguages" YahooGroup

"AfricanLanguages" was a Yahoo! Group on which was posted a lot of material about languages in Africa, including popular press articles from around the continent. A browsable and searchable subset of the message archives, including ~800 messages from 11 September 2004 through 31 August 2013, is available on Mail-archive.com.

I personally did a fair amount of posting on AfricanLanguages, including during the 9-year period captured on Mail-archive. Those posts often included the full text of articles under fair use doctrine, in addition to their inherently impermanent links. So this archive may be of some use to people interested in attitudes, policies, and research on African languages during that period.

Background of "AfricanLanguages" & my involvement

In 1999, Kenyan author Mwangi wa Mutahi set up an email list called AfricanLanguages as a "forum for African Language reading and writing," with the service then known as eGroups. That platform was acquired by Yahoo! in August 2000, and renamed Yahoo! Groups, or simply Yahoogroups.

When I discovered and joined this group in 2002, it had been somewhat inactive after an early period of activity (which is a typical pattern with many email lists). The posts, if memory serves, were all in English and about the languages of Africa - status, use, etc. I picked up on that pattern and became the most active poster to the group, and naturally communicated with the list owner to explain my interest and object.

At the time, I was already working on some forums about African languages and technology (the A12n lists and Unicode-Afrique), and saw an advantage to keeping track of developments with regard to the languages, without the tech and localization dimensions. The AfricanLanguages group seemed perfect for that, since I could help build on efforts there rather than starting another new list.

Some time in 2004, at my request, Mwangi wa Mutahi made me an administrator of the group. That enabled me to connect AfricanLanguages with Mail-archive, which is why we have the archives there now.

My activity tapered off in the early 2010s due to changing professional demands, but it's not clear why the archiving on Mail-archive stopped at the end of August 2013.

Erasure of Yahoo! Groups vs the race to archive them

In October 2019, Yahoo! announced that it would discontinue and delete the groups service as of 14 December of that year. I discussed this whole issue at some length in posts here on 31 October and 15 December, 2019.

Happily, it does appear that a message archive for AfricanLanguages was saved on Archive.org. However, that was evidently saved together with message archives of about 90 other Yahoogroups, and in a format that seems complicated to access. Some other lists of interest such as Unicode-Afrique have similarly been archived as parts of larger batches. So there's hope to resurface these small but unique windows on the recent history of African languages and their interface with information technology.

Monday, December 16, 2019

Yahoogroups & African languages, follow-up

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A quick follow-up to my previous message regarding the deletion of Yahoo Groups. In brief, the saga is still ongoing. This message will provide an update and mention other Africa - and especially African language - related groups (as maybe a missing dimension in this saga).

I've spent what time I could on the matter of saving the content of several groups of interest mentioned in the previous message. For AfrophoneWikis, Etienne Ruedin was particularly helpful in outlining possibilities and sharing downloaded backup files. And for Unicode-Afrique, Tafsir Baldé offered help and suggested a possible partnership with Idemi Africa. (See also below re Archive Team.)

In the meantime, Yahoo has extended the period during which users can request their data in downloadable form1 - and apparently also pushed back the date for pulling down the group pages - to 31 January 2020.2 The message content of the groups is no longer accessible now.

For the groups of interest, one question is what is the future of their content, and another is what future for those that are still viable. The data question is somewhat answered to the extent that individual users request their data, but Yahoo does not facilitate archiving elsewhere in such a way that would facilitate long-term access.

The larger question asked by many is why make this move in the first place. I won't explore that here, but it does highlight the problem of having such a big chunk of internet history subject to one corporation's short term interests.

The Archive Team's efforts


What's worse is that when a volunteer group - the Archive Team -  ramped up an effort to save Yahoo Groups, Verizon (Yahoo's owners) evidently worked to block such "mass-archiving" efforts. Hard to explain that.

It was only late during the scramble to do the necessary to save data (some of which had to be done manually) that I learned of the Archive Team's initiative for Yahoo Groups. And only now, digging deeper, did I realize that they had already archived a significant number of them on Archive.org. I was interested to see that those archives already included AfrophoneWikis, Unicode-Afrique, and AfricanLanguages.3 But they do not cover all groups, expecially not the smaller ones.

Overlooked African dimension of Yahoo Groups?


One aspect of Yahoo Groups that I haven't seen discussed, but which over the years I got the impression was important, is significant use by Africans. In other words, Yahoo Groups was never just a European and "core Anglophone" platform. Yet there's not much of an African voice I'm aware of in this discussion about the end of Yahoo Groups.

Among the most active Groups founded and participated in by Africans that I've noted are OmoOdua ("Yoruba socio-cultural discussion forum," with 1660 members and more than 160K messages since 2007) and Mwananchi ("A current affairs forum on Africa and the issues affecting the continent," with 1541 members and more than 180K messages since 2000).

However there are many that are more modest in size, such as Internet-Niger ("Internet au Niger," with 589 members and just under 16K messages since 1999). So basically I'm suggesting that among the stories of who loses with the deletion of Yahoo Groups, one that isn't getting much if any play would be the large user community in or of Africa.

African language related Yahoo Groups


Among the groups of personal interest are the five I listed in the previous posting that deal in one way or another with African languages. Three of those - AfricanLanguages, AfrophoneWikis and Unicode-Afrique - are ongoing lists, although like most other Groups, much less active than they once were. The other two - A12n-archives and PAL-archives - were set up as back-up archives for lists whose original archives were then deleted some time later. Fortuitous to have had the back-ups, but it is ironic that they too got the axe.

So here I'll list a few other African language related Yahoo Groups that I'm aware of - most of them tiny in terms both of membership and activity. However they reflect a range of interests, even if they were not always as successful in this medium as their creators evidently had hoped.
  • Ethiopic (2001, 19 members, ~100 messages). It was "established to begin dialogue and understanding regarding the computer keyboard layout for Ethiopian Languages." Its ambitious goals were somewhat obviated by work elsewhere on Ethiopic/Ge'ez keyboards.
  • Kiswahili (2001, 993 members, ~50K messages). "A forum about the latest Swahili news." I did not have much to do with this list, but had the impression it had a lot of activity and much of it was actually in English.
  • Linux2Igbo (2004, 20 members, 174 messages). "This is a project that aims to translate Linux GUI such as KDE and GNOME and popular software such as Open Office, Mozilla Firefox and Thunderbird into the Igbo language." I was asked to serve as a moderator of L2I, and made some contributions (even though I do not speak the language).
  • Mandenkan_sebeli (aka Mandenkan sebe web ka; 2003, 6 members, ? messages). Intended to promote writing of Mandenkan (Manding languages) on the web. I don't recall that this group had any archived messages - indeed the Yahoo data I received had only links for it.
  • Mzi_kaPhalo (2001, 71 members, ~150 messages). It was "set up mainly to serve the Xhosa Translators' Community, however other Xhosa language issues can also be discussed." My impression was that it was active for a brief time then mostly quiet.
  • WowlenPular (2002, 7 members, 15 messages). Set up to promote the "survival" and use of Fula, with accent on the Pular of Guinea. I posted several of the few messages on this group, including some excerpts of texts from books in Pular.

Next steps


The data I got from Yahoo included .mbox files with all the message, link, and file content of thegroups I was subscribed to, including all of those mentioned above. In theory I think one could with these files reconstruct any group if one had a reason to do so and a new host for it. So that is one possible discussion for certain groups.

On the technical side, I am not sure how the versions saved on Archive.org might be used if one wanted to continue a group. This question might be useful to explore.

For most groups, the most one may want to do would be to present the data in an easily accessible, navigable, and readable format. This could include many Yahoo Groups about (or in) African languages, and that could be another discussion. 

_____________________
1. See Barbara Krasnoff's helpful article in The Verge, "How to download your Yahoo Group data."
2. Per "Yahoo is Extending It’s Deadline To Delete The Content Of Yahoo Groups," NewDayLive.com, 13 Dec. 2019. The wording was not so clear, but one had the hope that the message content online might also endure a while longer. That hope was not borne out.
3. These archives are organized in batches of groups, and the files for each individual group are available in gzip format. These apparently were saved over the course of a few years - AfricanLanguages for instance in 2016, Unicode-Afrique in 2017, and AfrophoneWikis in 2018.

Thursday, October 31, 2019

Yahoogroups & African languages

Yahoo's decision earlier this month to cease hosting user-created content and archives of its Yahoo! Groups appears to mean a loss of another sliver of internet history, including substantive discussions about African languages. At a time when technology is being used to collect data in massive amounts, even on trivial matters, this seems hard to justify in the way it is being done, even if one understands the bottom-line calculations of Yahoo corporation.

Two immediate issues faced by the people connected with each Yahoo Group are whether and how first to preserve their group's message archives and other content, and second to continue the group as a list with another host. So I wanted to highlight a number of Yahoo Groups that deal (or dealt) with African languages in one way or another, and which will need help at least for permanent archiving before Yahoo pulls down the content in about 6 weeks (14 December 2019).

In this post I'll simply list a few of those that most interest me personally, with year of creation, number of subscribers, number of messages, and brief description. I may return to several of those and others in subsequent posts, all in the interest of preserving at least some of this history, and raising interest in archiving content in a way that makes it useful for future discussions and research. Keep in mind that the links in the list below will no longer function after 14 Dec.:
  • AfricanLanguages (1999; 134 subscribers; 1335 messages). About reading & writing African languages (in practice, includes many news items).
  • Unicode-Afrique (2002; 197 subscribers; 1599 messages). Discussion in French about Unicode, with accent on Africa.
  • AfrophoneWikis (2006; 99 subscribers; 756 messages). Wikipedia editions in African languages.
  • A12n-archives (2005; 2 subscribers; 1135 messages). Never an active list, this group archived traffic from several "A12n" lists with a total of about 200 subscribers.
  • PAL-archives (2006; 3 subscribers; 465 messages). Never an active list, this group archived traffic from 3 lists (in English, French & Portuguese, with cross translation) of the PanAfrican Localisation project.
I am aware of several possible ways of archiving Yahoo! Groups or transferring them to a new host. Any strong recommendations concerning one or another would be welcome.

(Image above by Jayson Willis, 2010, via UserLogos.org.)

Sunday, December 08, 2013

Quick notes: ANLoc offline & Yahoogroups RSS problem

The African Network for Localisation (ANLoc) website is still down. Although I am not personally involved in its management, hopefully there will be some update to share soon. Hence the site RSS (and that for the subsidiary PanAfriL10n wiki), as seen in the right-hand column/sidebar, are not working.

Also still haven't sorted out how to revive the RSS feeds for Yahoogroups also featured in the sidebar. Hope to resolve or reformat soon. (Per discussions online, this apparently relates to a group setting changed when Yahoo updated the groups features.)

The presentation of sites and groups on Beyond Niamey was discussed more fully in a recent post.

I've also started building some short pages on this blog site, which are linked via tabs below the header.